WoWProgress: main page

Tier15 Heroic Videos

Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:33:12 +0000

Heroic Ra-den

Heroic Ra-den Video by
Heroic Ra-den Video by
Heroic Ra-den Video by

Heroic Lei Shen

Heroic Lei Shen Video by
Heroic Lei Shen Video by
Heroic Lei Shen Video by

All Heroic Twin Consorts Videos...

All Heroic Iron Qon Videos...

All Heroic Dark Animus Videos...

All Heroic Primordius Videos...

All Heroic Durumu the Forgotten Videos...

All Heroic Ji-Kun Videos...

All Heroic Megaera Videos...

All Heroic Tortos Videos...

Improved Scoring for Tier15, the Long Version, Part 2

Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:21:24 +0000

This is Part 2 (the final part I hope) of posts about scoring system.

Read Part 1 here

Let's continue with our example.

Some guild lost a day on boss1 because they made a mistake in tactics, or their key players had a birthday party, etc (the reason doesn't matter here).
This mistake costs them 10 points (1 day).

There are two bosses left, and the guild is starting 1 day late on the next bosses. It means the guild also loses 10 points on boss2 and 50 points on boss3.

So mistake on the first boss costs them 10+10+50 = 70 points!

Now there is another guild, they are doing okay and killed boss1 1 day faster than the first guild.
And both guilds spend they same amount of time on boss2.
But this other guild made a mistake on boss3 and lost 1 day.

Mistake on boss3 costs them 50 points.

To summarize:
- the first guild lost 1 day on boss1 that costed them 70 points
- the second guild lost 1 day on boss3 that costed them 50 points
- in total, during the race, both guilds lost 1 day and killed the final boss (boss3) in the same day

Mistake on the easiest first boss costed more than mistake on the hardest final boss. And the first guild has less points and loses the race even though they spent less time on the hardest boss.

If the raid is gated, guilds start working on bosses in the same day, even if some of them spent more time on the previous boss. Delay on the first boss would not pass further and it would cost only 10 points instead of 70.

I hope you understand now why we changed our scoring system.
There are cases when point decay system is better, we will continue to improve the scoring system when needed (example: Stars going straight to Firefighter skipping other hardmodes).

I'm locking comments here, if you have comments, please post them in the first part.

P.S.
Here are some additional notes from the comments:

=====================

Sometimes people asking us to set boss points points dynamically based on the difficulty.
In theory it looks good, but in practice it's not applicable. Changing boss points will make things hectic in the beginning of the race. Guilds will be very confused if boss points are not settled.
=====================

We are not going to force anyone to kill bosses in linear order.
There is nothing wrong with skipping bosses.

It is okay if no one will follow the linear path. Then all guilds will get the same amount of points.

But if a guild was strong enough to kill some bosses without skipping, they get more points.

For example, guilds that didn't skip Heroic Council are stronger than ones that skipped the encounter.

If you feel that skipping this boss was a mistake, come back next week and catch up.

Now lets compare it with point decay system.
Council would give much more points than Tortos and Ji-Kun.
Skipping Council would reduce your points _forever_, and that's actually very strong pressure to not skip the bosses.
=====================

Point decay based on weeks (raid lockouts).
We used lockout-based point decay where there were tiers with limited attempts.

Improved Scoring for Tier15, the Long Version

Tue, 19 Mar 2013 04:16:01 +0000

This topic is a complicated one that needs further explanation. Many players are posting comments without understanding the subject.

WoWProgress is the oldest and the most advanced WoW Rankings website. It was launched 5 years ago and Sunwell was the first raiding tier for it.
Our scoring system was designed for Sunwell gating. Now it seems many people don't remember what gating is.

Gating is not related to skipping bosses
When you defeated a boss, there was a gate that didn't allow you to see next one. Top guilds had to wait for new content to open every time they killed a boss.
Game developers decided when it's time to open the next boss. Once the gate is open, all the guilds that have defeated the previous one, started trying the new boss simultaneously (I'm not counting region time difference here).

Gating means that all competitive guilds start working on the next boss simultaneously
Even if you killed the previous boss faster, you weren't have any advantage on the next one.
Instead of one big race, the raiding tier contained several small races.

Point decay and counting total amount of points from several bosses was a perfect solution for gated content.

Now I'll explain why the system isn't working so well when there is no gating.

With point decay, every day you spend sitting on a boss costs you some amount of points.
There are different scores attached to different bosses.
Lets say there is a raid with 3 bosses: boss1, boss2, boss3.
They have daily scores attached: 10 for boss1, 10 for boss2, 50 for boss3.
It means every day you spend working on boss1 costs you 10 points.

boss1 and boss2 are intermediate bosses and boss3 is the final and the most complex one, which is why there are more points for it.

Looks absolutely logical, right?
Harder bosses cost more points. If you kill the harder boss faster, you get more points comparing to the easier boss kills.

Now there is a trap in this logic.

Example:
Some guild lost a day on boss1 because they made a mistake in tactics, or their key players had a birthday party, etc (the reason doesn't matter here).
This mistake costs them 10 points (1 day).

Quiz question: what is the flaw in this logic?

Part 2 is here

Improved Scoring for Tier15

Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:20:44 +0000

We have changed our scoring system in order to better reflect the non-gated raid rankings:

- boss kills now grant constant amount of points

- guild rank is still defined by amount of score points and timestamp of your latest boss kill

- skipping bosses will reduce points of next bosses, but once you kill the missing bosses, you'll get your full points back

If you want to discuss whether we should adjust boss kill times depending on delayed content in different regions, here is a post for you:
Region based time adjustment on WoWProgress: Yes or No?

Introducing WoW Guild Item Level Rankings

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:10:43 +0000

WoWProgress introduces Guild Item Level Rankings!
Now you can watch guild listings sorted by average item level of best geared 10/25 characters of each guild.
If your guild is doing 25-man progression, its item level calculated with 25 best characters.
Otherwise item level calculated with 10 best characters.

Guild Item Level Rankings - West (10-man / 25-man)

Guild Item Level Rankings - Asia (10-man / 25-man)

Thunderforged item rates: 10-man vs 25-man

Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:52:21 +0000

WoWProgress analyzed character profiles from guilds that killed the first boss in Tier 15 Jin'rokh the Breaker, and here is some info about thunderforged item percentage:

10-man
Guilds killed the first boss: 9616
Items equipped: 19123
Thunderforged items equipped: 2228
Thunderforged items percentage: 11.7%

25-man
Guilds killed the first boss: 1326
Items equipped: 7907
Thunderforged items equipped: 2033
Thunderforged items percentage: 25.7%

There are disenchanted, not equipped items among normal (level 522) loot, so we can assume that probably percentage of thunderforged items is:
- 10-man: 10%
- 25-man: 25%
which is quite significant difference.

Separating Western and Asian WoW Progress and iLvl Rankings

Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:56:43 +0000

There is different version of WoW in the Asian regions with 10- and 25-man lockouts, higher ilvl and boss health.
This is greatly affecting iLvl Rankings and also may affect Progress Rankings, so we have to make separate rankings for Americas/Europe/Oceanic and Asian countries.

You will see only Western listings by default (instead of World) and you can choose all the other regions (including Asian ones) from the main menu.

Note that only Tier 14+ progress will be separated, previous tiers were not changed.

WoW Videos Search is Here!

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:18:25 +0000

Now you can search WoW videos on WoWProgress:
- by encounter
- by class PoV
- by spec PoV

Just go to any encounter page you would like to watch and use the dropdown menu to select PoV.
Examples:
Heroic Will of the Emperor, Hunter PoV
Heroic Garalon 10-man, Balance Druid PoV

Our database contains more than 14K videos now and the number is growing fast!

10 000 videos on WoWProgress, Happy New Year!

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 04:40:30 +0000

I'm glad to announce that WoWProgress users have uploaded 10 000+ videos for Tier14 PvE Content!

This is the biggest collection of actual PvE videos!

So far our Video Section generated 308K Views, Average Time on Page is 5 minutes.
As promised, we are going to add Video Search function soon.

Thanks and Happy New Year everyone!

Amount of Pulls on WoWProgress!

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:43:41 +0000

WoWProgress is now tracking amount of pulls on different bosses for all guilds and characters!
1. Go to guild page.
2. Progression table contains new column: Pulls.
3. Click "+show".

It will show raid setup including:
- characters that killed the boss
- replaced characters that didn't participated in the first kill
- amount of pulls for each character!

Here is some info about amount of pulls that did the top guilds before killing heroic bosses.

Will of the Emperor Heroic 25-man
1. Method 108 pulls
2. Envy 46 pulls
3. vodka 76 pulls
4. Blood Legion 107 pulls

Grand Empress Shek'zeer Heroic 25-man
1. Blood Legion 85 pulls
2. Method 156 pulls
3. Wraith 109 pulls
4. vodka 125 pulls

Will of the Emperor Heroic 10-man
1. DREAM Paragon 19 pulls
2. КрашТест 60 pulls
3. solid line 58 pulls
4. Die Hordlinge 59 pulls

Grand Empress Shek'zeer Heroic 10-man
1. DREAM Paragon 142 pulls
2. Freak Me Out 111
3. КрашТест 147 pulls

Note: no all guilds have been updated yet. If you see the info is missing, press the "Update Guild Progress" button.

Update:
As the data has been removed from the API by Blizzard, we had to disable the feature now.

Show us your Youtube videos

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 05:48:35 +0000

WoWProgress introduces guild boss kills videos that can be updated by guild profile administrators.

How to add Youtube video as a guild profile administrator:

1. Go to your guild page.

2. Look at the encounter progress list: there is new column "Video".

3. Click "+add" link.

4. Copy-paste Youtube URL to the form.

Now your video icons are visible on your guild page and on the boss encounter page.

This feature has been added just a few hours ago and at the moment there are about 500 videos already.
Soon we will add video search feature by class, spec, etc.

Promote your Youtube videos on WoWProgress!

Day -> Timestamp

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 04:17:34 +0000

In the previous tiers final rankings were defined by timestamp of the final bosses kill (Madness of Deathwing in Tier 13 and Ragnaros in Tier 12).

In this tier we have several gated final bosses and final rankings will be defined by total of the scores.

We are switching score by date to score by seconds in order to get more accurate ranking for top guilds.

The downside of this change is for average guilds the rankings will now depend more on their raid schedule. Those who start raids earlier will get more score points.
(This is why we didn't want to do that before)

How Strong is Your Battle Pet Army?

Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:17:46 +0000

WoWProgress introduces Battle Pet Score Rankings!
The scoring is based on level (xp needed to level) and pet quality.

Pet quality modifiers:
poor: 1.0,
common: 1.1,
uncommon: 1.2,
rare: 1.3,
epic: 1.4,

XP needed to level:
level 2: 50,
level 3: 110,
level 4: 120,
level 5: 195,
level 6: 280,
level 7: 450,
level 8: 560,
level 9: 595,
level 10: 720,
level 11: 760,
level 12: 900,
level 13: 945,
level 14: 990,
level 15: 1150,
level 16: 1200,
level 17: 1250,
level 18: 1430,
level 19: 1485,
level 20: 1540,
level 21: 1595,
level 22: 1800,
level 23: 1860,
level 24: 1920,
level 25: 1980.

(Thanks Kesuke for help with getting that numbers)

If you have suggestions, welcome to the comments.

Update: duplicated pets are being removed from Pet Score.

MoP first week of raiding results

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:14:21 +0000

Results of scanning raiding guilds so far:

Total amount of level 90 characters: 900,000 (835,000 unique players)

Amount of characters that killed the first boss in MV: 136,000

Amount of characters that killed the final boss in MV: 14,000

Let's take a look at breakdown by classes.

Class popularity

Percentage of characters that managed to kill the first boss by class (normal mode)

Percentage of characters that managed to kill the final boss by class (normal mode)

- it seems that there are too many warriors and hunters (they had lesser chances to get in raid)

- warlocks are doing good in raids

- obviously monk value is the special case, many of them probably were leveled for raiding

Update:

This article does NOT count how many characters of each class killed bosses. It does NOT compare amount of paladins, druids, etc.

It compares class success ratio in getting to raids.
Example:
There are 108,000 level 90 Druids and 61,000 level 90 Warlocks.
Amount of Druids killed the final boss: 1900.
Amount of Warlocks killed the final boss: 1200.

Of course, there are more Druids than Warlocks because Druid is a hybrid class.

But what is relevant is success ratio, what percentage of those 108,000 druids managed to kill the final boss?
Druids: 1.76% killed Will of the Emperor
Warlocks: 1.94% killed Will of the Emperor

So you see there were less warlocks, but warlocks had more success killing the boss - that was the subject of this post.

Abusing realm transfers

Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:15:05 +0000

At this point we have to introduce a rule against using abuses.

Abusing realm transfers to get more boss kills will reduce your final score by 10% for each transfer.

Please make sure that no one in your guild get more boss kills than possible.

P.S.
Note that the topic is only about realm transfers.
No need to count boss kill if there was no realm transfer.

Challenge mode gold medal World First

Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:48:29 +0000

Congrats to from EU-Sen'jin with World 1st Challenge Mode Gold Medal!

You can see their party setup in Challenge Runs

WoWProgress introduces Challenge Score

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 22:22:05 +0000

Challenge Score is a cumulative measure of player's challenge mode performance.
It is a total of best time runs on each dungeon normalized by gold medal criteria for the dungeon.

You are now able to see Challenge Score breakdown table on character pages. This table contain character's best times for each dungeon.

Watch and compete with best challenge mode players on WoWProgress!

Region-wide Challenge Mode Rankings on WoWProgress

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 22:38:18 +0000

You can now compete and watch Region-wide Challenge Mode Rankings on WoWProgress!

These listings are updated every 10 minutes, they include data from all realms.

We are going to release more challenge mode features this week, come and check next day!

Region based time adjustment on WoWProgress: Yes or No?

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 06:32:40 +0000

As you know, different regions have new content open in different times.
This time for leveling ranking we are doing time adjustment.
As US got MoP 9 hours later than EU, we are adjusting their level time.
Looking at Level 90 Top 25 we see 12 players from US which is fine.
For monks there is a monk from US on the top.

The question is should we do time adjustments for raiding, for boss kill times?
There are different opinions.

This is really questionable thing.
Please post your opinions in comments, should we do time adjustments in MoP?

Challenge Mode Rankings coming to WoWProgress

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 02:54:39 +0000

You will be able to participate in special Challenge Mode Rankings provided by WoWProgress.

Once it's ready, we will post about it. Stay tuned!