Mythic Plus Updates


3 years ago


Mythic Plus Score now works following way:

- points depend on key level and run time, as before
- level 16 key completed just in time gives the same amount of points as level 15 key completed in 3 chests time
- level 16 key with missed timer by 2 chests gives the same amount of points as level 15 key completed just in time

Please note it works as before, the only difference is the coefficient of points per time increased significantly. So that if higher key run takes too much time, it grants lesser amount points, but still it makes sense to complete.
(Initially we wanted to add 75% penalty for failing a key, but the idea was then scrapped)

In other words:
N key in 3-chests time = N+1 key in time
N+1 key, timer missed by the same amount of time as 3-chests bonus = N key in time

All runs saved in the database. Runs with highest points chosen for score calculation.

Other changes:

- Points are now calculated for each role: DPS, Tanking, Healing

- By default only in-time runs shown, but there is possibility to view all runs.

Thanks for all the people who provided feedback on the M+ scoring system!

Update:
Changed key level-time balance towards key level. Now 3-chests completion time equals next key level just in-time.

Comments

  1. MrDregan
    Dregan#2157
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Quick question: My DHT 20 run is gone. Is this a bug?
  2. Kernel
    3 years ago
    Your DHT 20 run saved in the database. There you missed the timer by large amount of time and therefore it grants fewer points. So the system has chosen DHT 19 run to calculate your score and it is considered your best run.
  3. MrDregan
    Dregan#2157
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Ok found it, it's now rank 296.

    Feels a bit extreme, that a 15 2-chest can be rank 50ish as of now and a 20 missed by 26ish minutes (it's a lot, but not tooooo extreme).

    Although I get the point behind it and strongly support it! Just feels like it could be a little bit less extreme, since it seems to fall off pretty quickly on the first glance.

    Good work nevertheless!
  4. Langdom
    Langdom#2287
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Hello Kernel,

    I'm looking at the Leaderboards -> All but our DHT+20 also can't see it.
    Here is the official wow leaderboard:
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/game/pve/leaderboards/dun-modr/darkheart-thicket

    Thanks
  5. Langdom
    Langdom#2287
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    My character is Meganz-DunModr
  6. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Do u want to tell me that my 16 Cathedral (hard work though) isn't shown, but my 11 cathedral is? How wanna people see that i got experience of playing a higher one than 11? People know the timers, but how should they value my run if they aren't seeing it?

    I also think 146 points for an lower kara 18 isn't enough. Still feels like a penalty for playing it.

    Maybe im just too early with my comment. Isn't it refreshed by now?
  7. Kernel
    3 years ago
    It is refreshed and all your runs saved in the database. Later I will add possibility to view all of them.
    But for now the system chooses to show runs with highest points.
  8. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I understand. That's helpful.

    What will be the standard setting? Show all or just show keys completed in time?
  9. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I would prefer that all keys are shown as default setting, because people should see the whole experience at a glance.
  10. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Also missing MOS 17, HOV 16 and BRH 18.

    People should be able to see that I've got experience - Especially talking about cathedral keystones. they are much harder than other ones the higher they are.

    Seems not fair or helpful at all. I don't have a problem with the scoring at all, but I've got a problem that people can't see my whole experience at all!

    I wouldn't mind if the highest run on keystone level is shown, but that one with the highest amount of points does count for the scoring. Or there has to be 2 options: "show all keys (in time and not in time)" and "show only keys completed intime)
  11. Syphien
    Syphien#1190
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I think it's honestly a step in the wrong direction for people who want to push higher and higher keys to see if they can attempt to complete it. It just makes you want to speed run everything as opposed to actually trying to complete the most difficult key that you can. Just don't really like the new system as much as the old. :(
  12. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    You also have to consider that if u dont make it intime u can not do it again on the same level, because the key is getting downgraded.

    For example u just missed the timer by 15 seconds, u can not improve your m+ score for that key, because its one level lower now.

    But there is a big plus on these changes... Maybe people will be able to evaluate themselves way better. They will not waste their time attempting to higher keys they know they cant make them intime and instead they are playing on that level they know that they are able to make it.
    It is a big help in finding people who fit in your group.
  13. lilownz
    Yoshike The Hex Pistols
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Well you would always want to push as high as u can clear because of the weekly ap reward.
  14. Averich
    averich#21551
    Agonass Insanity
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    These are some interesting changes, and I mostly like them. However you should consider, that key's difficulty increases exponentially while the awarded score is increasing linearly.
    At some point it might actually be way easier to do dungeon of level N in time for +2 upgrade than it is to complete dungeon of N+2 difficulty in time.
  15. lilownz
    Yoshike The Hex Pistols
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    what this man said
  16. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I hope they will be able to consider the difficulty. I think the bonus amount of points should be higher on higher keys and lower on lower keys. People shouldnt get rewarded the same way lower keys does if they are able to play 19 intime. Same counts for the deduction if you are not doing a key intime.
  17. kompass99
    chris94#2155
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    missing many runs brh 15, cos 14, hov 15, maw 18, hope you bring the option to show all keys very fast, cause im prefering to run the keys like my guild name :)
  18. Sindelpt
    Sindel Raze
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    This whole scoring system is a joke, implying that 3 chesting a +15 is harder or equal to even completing a +18.
    Browsing through dungeons is even more hilarious, seeing +15 runs and then a +16 appears in the middle, then +15 again... not just one step in the wrong direction, but way too many.
  19. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    One thought... If u get bonus points for 1 - 2 - 3 chests like before in 7.2 getting bonus loot for that... 15 2 Chests = 165 points right now in my case.

    Why is the deduction of points for keys they arent completed in time that high?
    Right now you are getting a one rank lower key for not making intime. shouldnt it be the same here?

    18 - 2 Chests = 190 points
    18 - 1 Chest = 180 points
    18 not in time = (one key lower) = 170 points?
  20. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Currently it depends on how slow you have been :

    18 timer 1 chest behind = 170 points
    18 timer 2 chest behind = 160 points
    18 timer 3 chest behind = 150 points
    ...
  21. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Yea currently it is like you said. But I think they should do it here like Blizzard does. Blizzard is handling keys that are not in time that you get one key lower.

    The points for m+ not in time shouldnt get any lower than one key. I mean what is the point of this? People are getting a penalty for doing real high keys with an exponentially increasing difficulty. If it is only 10 points lower for not doing it in time it can be seen as motivation, not as penalty.

    But anyway every changing has positives and negatives. I just think it is not fair at all even with an future option to see all keys. I feel like it's the same not to make +5 in time like not making +19.
  22. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Compared to the 75%, it is definitely a step in the right direction. However I still think that's not it. For example I have completed a +14 Cathedral this week and soloed (yes, soloed) a +2. The +2 give me more points than the +14. That is completely nonsense. I have to agree with Sindelpt, that way or scoring implies that 3-chesting a +15 is the same difficulty as a +18 (or even way higher, depending on how slow it has been), which is once again, nonsense.
    Honestly it all started with a good idea, but we should just go back to how it was before. Besides, it has hidden what is a very good new feature : Tank/healer/dd scoring.
  23. kompass99
    chris94#2155
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    this new system is a joke, i mean if i progress with a group a high key like 17+ and need 60 mins+ for example i got lower points than a 13 in time, i mean what should this brings? that all ppl running only low keys on 3 chest getting higher score? That is not the goal, good job!
  24. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Well I don't see it as a joke. That's way to hard.

    I think it should be changed in some points I told some comments before. But it also can be a great chance.

    Right now it shows more than it ever does. Right now (at least with the option to show all keys) people can decide much better who fits in their groups. Ofc the deduction of points on keys which are not in time is way too high. I agree with that.
  25. Shippujinlai
    Batah#1409
    Metalchic Game Over
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I think there should be some kind of floor for higher keys for how low they can get. Right now my score is telling me that my 14 dht because it was so much over timer was as easy as 3 chesting a +5. If this change had been in place when i ran the DHT i would not have bothered as 50 points wasn't worth the hour and a half of my time when i could have run 3 +10s in that time.
  26. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    One more thing: in my opinion Leaderboards are crap. I want to see what is the highest key every week and not what is the key for that there was given most m+ score.

    Example: Lower Kara 16 is ranked on #1. Lower Kara 18 Keys are on page 3 after some 14 keys, because they werent intime and for that they gave less points.

    The challenge for players is: how far can u go in each week and not how many points can u get.
    I'm not comparing to other players in m+ points. There is no reason to try higher keys if theoratically a 13 can be ranked #1 because it was 3 chested and a 18 is farer behind because it wasnt intime.
  27. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    My bad... You can check Leaderboards for in-time and All.

    Default Option should be all. If i want to filter I should click in-time.
  28. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Wait... There will be 2 different rankings then? Also on your profile? One for intime keys and one for all keys?
  29. Donselm
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Exaaaaaaaaactly!
  30. RiAAAAn
    Riaan#2945
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    totally don't understand why i got 139pts in +16 arc not in timer and almost the same pts 135 in +13 brh with +1 chest. does it rly match the rule as u said?
  31. RiAAAAn
    Riaan#2945
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    and +18 brh with missed timer got me 166 pts, as u said it should be the same as +17 just in time, but seems just in time gives the pts=10* number of level + x? so the rules seem rly confusing... the old one is definitely better i promise.
  32. Donselm
    Rating: +10 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I participate in a lot of high keys. I think that system feels very bad now. In my opinion a high key should always be more worth than a lower key. Why should i even try a cathedral +19 if i know i can not beat the timer?! This system makes the grind for M+ score much less competetive, since only keys will be played were you think you can beat the timer (and which in general wont be the hardest keys!).

    In my opinion the old system was also not that great. Because the time did hardly matter at all.

    I would like to add a suggestion. Why not do it like the following.
    Beating dungeon in time = Full points (e.g. on a +15 = 150 points)
    Beating a dungeon not in time -1chest = 75% points of that level (e.g. 147.5 points)
    Beating a dungeon not in time -2chest = 50% points of that level (e.g. 145 points)
    Beating a dungeon not in time -3chest = 25% points of that level (e.g. 142.5 points)

    Thus, doing really long runs would punish you! Current system does not make any sense, people will not push for the super hard keys, and i think doing those keys are the greatest achievements!
  33. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I totally agree :)
  34. Healandkite
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    While I think it's good to have scores affected by time, I do not think this system best reflects pushing keys. I'm a little frustrated that the current system doesn't reward pushing your limits. For example, the highest Cathedral completed successfully this week was a 15; while I admit that my Cath 16 time was atrocious, I think that it should be worth a LOT more than my Cath 11 (but it is not shown at all). It does not make sense to me for the #2 highest completed Cath key (on my realm currently) to receive a lower (not factored in at all) score than a +11. As another person has already argued, this will drive players to only push keys that they know that they can "complete" - and then if, for example, they were to be in some 20+ key and ran out of time (including the 1 chest time over) groups will disband as it is not worth completing. Under the old system, you would still be able to tell how "good" someone was by the ranking of their key completion - you could look at someone who completed a +20 but see it was ranked 2,000th (so clearly it wasn't a good run). This new system does this analysis for you, in a bad way.
  35. Panacoti
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I'm really grateful to the amazing work wowprogress does!

    But I don't understand either this new way of calculating points. My BRH+14 turned into a +10, my Upper Kara +15 gave us less point than a +10 (and UK+15 is way harder than a UK+10).
    If I do a CoeN +19 in 1 day I want this 1-day-run to be in the ranking and not turn into a CoeN +6 because it is the same amount of points.

    Some people do mm+ for AP, for fun or whaterver. Others do it to be in top ranking. It deserves them, in my opinion, to lower their performance. Even though they don't do the run in time.
  36. Caprica
    Director#2606
    Капавтанке У беляша
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    In list of "not in time" Mawl of souls runs missed my run +20.
  37. Caprica
    Director#2606
    Капавтанке У беляша
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    With new calculating of M+ score is no reason to do very hard keys. If player need +18 key for upgrade his m+ score and something go wrong while running and player understand that its a "not in time" run - with new score system he can just leave this group without finishing for no wasting time.
    Why you make this conditions?
    Now no reason go in +19 keys, cause better downgrade this key to +17 and do it 100% intime and get more points
  38. Modokan
    Modokan#2629
    Modokan stay hydrated
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    The new System in my opinion is really shit, can u mby get the old system back? Its so crap, why are like +17 runs better then some +19 runs, its really really crap, pls pls make the old system back
  39. Arlakon
    Badturkey#2529
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    To be honest, I dont think its completely bad at all. The main problem is, that you cant score a +15 3 chest as the same as a +18, because of the exponentially increase in difficulty. It may be tough to do the right thing here, but for now it would be better to revert the system to his old self and to invent a new one with correct scalings according to the difficulty. The difference between Tank/heal/dps however was a very good feature that was brought in. Its easier to look at ppl that are signing up for your keys in the tool.
  40. Kreslav
    Rating: +8 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Cathedral of Eternal Night M+15 135m 45s 9993 5956 6.07

    Is this fucking joke? So the player is punished for finishing instance. Before this system everybody was motivated to finish hard dungeon "atleast for +10 wowprogress". And now everybody will say "fuck it, i'll better leave and won't try. Ill go some +2 and itt will be more". It aplies to tyranical as well. Nobody will be motivated to stay and finish +18-20 tyranical. Blizzard makes players push keys by adding stacking +40% chance per difficulty to additional loot item. This ranking system punishes finishing in time and promotes grinding low level for +2 - +3. Earlier mythic score was something worth fighting for and I could assess ppl who want to join my group by mythic score - their ABILITY to kill very high level bosses and DEDICATION to stay in group for 2-3 hours and dont ragequit. Now, a guy who grinds 13-15 will have higher mythic score than somebody who pushes 18-20 to the max and spends more time there. Current system is bad for group making and will be avoided by players who push keys unless its changed.
  41. Kreslav
    Rating: +4 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Why fix something that is not broken? Old system was a great way to compete among players AND to form a group.
  42. Emrip
    Rating: +4 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    My +8 cathedral is worth more than my +16 cathedral. System is broken.
  43. Viskikäärmes
    Viskikäärmes#2803
    Whiskysnake
    Rating: -6 [-][+]
  44. Kreslav
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    There is soft enrage on each boss even in dungeons. In raids it is not important weather u do the raid in 1 hour or in 8 hours. Should be like that
  45. Emrip
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Except you are comparing a single raid encounter to an entire dungeon. Its like saying your mythic Gul'dan kill shouldn't count because you wiped a lot on him before you kill him. Or that your mythic Gul'dan kill counts because you beat him in X attempts. I'm not on the bleeding edge of progression and neither are the people I do my mythic+ with so when we get to a 16-17 keystone it becomes quite challenging. It might take us longer to complete the key but our efforts shouldn't be relegated to such a low standard because we didn't make the timer. Blizzard has already tried to shift the focus off the timer and onto the completion (no more three chest/no more depelte) and the people at wowprogress in charge of the M+ section immediately give it middle finger and make pushing keys all about the timer. People will never get rank 1 for the keystone at the highest level, every rank 1 will be 3 levels lower with a 3 chest.
  46. Wulpurgis
    Valentinyan#2921
    Rating: +4 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Now push key, and stay until the end is totally useless..I really prefer to see ppl that go for a +20 for like 3 hours, than see a guy with a +13 2 chest.. Give us back the old system!
  47. Wyand12
    Rating: +4 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Omg, get the old system back... This makes no sense at all... Please.
  48. Viskikäärmes
    Viskikäärmes#2803
    Whiskysnake
    Rating: -6 [-][+]
  49. Kreslav
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    "What is the point if you can do the bosses over and over again and progress them"

    Thats how raid progression in this game works. So you are just proving everybody else's point that it should be reverted to previous state or modified.
  50. Viskikäärmes
    Viskikäärmes#2803
    Whiskysnake
    Rating: -3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I mean in mythic+ you can go +20 key and progress the bosses there and then you do 19 in time and get same score. If you still can't manage do 19 in time you can go and do 18 2 chest and still get same score. The system is way better then the older.
  51. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Except that because of this system, people will never stay in the +20. Already started : "grp won't make it in time, goodbye"
    Imagine raid progress, First world kill on Kil'jaeden get less points than any random guild that just clean the raid faster... Implication gets punished ...
  52. Emrip
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Why did it make sense before. Its not like anything has changed except the number of chests doesn't matter anymore. Displaying that someone did a mythic+ X in 600 mins is enough. But that doesn't mean there run shouldn't count towards score. Its not like the dungeon suddenly became 10 times easier for the group because it takes 30 minutes or 300 minutes. Yes the keystone could be dropped down 3 levels and 3 chested but the difference between a 15 and an 18 keystone is 120% damage and HP. Should I be rewarded for doing this?(Source: http://i.imgur.com/UVaCCwN.png). And even if the key I am pushing is depeleted by a large amount, I can't go straight back in at the same level to try and get a better time, I have to do it lower and lower till I can complete. A 16 no matter the time should not be worth less than a 15 completed with 3 chests. Just like a +20 not completed in time shouldn't be worth less than a 1 chest 19 when theres a 52% damage/HP difference. Its the reason why a few of your dungeons are not rank 1. Currently you hold the rank 1 CoS but when someone one chests a 19 that should not take the rank CoS spot, but under the current system it does. (Also gg 5 demonhunters)
  53. Emrip
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Why did it make sense before. Its not like anything has changed except the number of chests doesn't matter anymore. Displaying that someone did a mythic+ X in 600 mins is enough. But that doesn't mean there run shouldn't count towards score. Its not like the dungeon suddenly became 10 times easier for the group because it takes 30 minutes or 300 minutes. Yes the keystone could be dropped down 3 levels and 3 chested but the difference between a 15 and an 18 keystone is 120% damage and HP. Should I be rewarded for doing this?(Source: http://i.imgur.com/UVaCCwN.png). And even if the key I am pushing is depeleted by a large amount, I can't go straight back in at the same level to try and get a better time, I have to do it lower and lower till I can complete. A 16 no matter the time should not be worth less than a 15 completed with 3 chests. Just like a +20 not completed in time shouldn't be worth less than a 1 chest 19 when theres a 52% damage/HP difference. Its the reason why a few of your dungeons are not rank 1. Currently you hold the rank 1 CoS but when someone one chests a 19 that should not take the rank CoS spot, but under the current system it does. (Also gg 5 demonhunters)
  54. Emrip
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Just would also like to add that if the current system stays the same, can we allow players to choose between displaying their highest completed key over the highest score, along with different tabs for our tank scores/dps scores/healer scores.
  55. jinxme
    jinxme#21985
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I have to agree to this. Doing a +16 cathedral doesnt even close to 2 chesting a +11 . If it would be possible to show the high keys pushed wich actually display a certain difficulty it would be great. Thank you
  56. Sindelpt
    Sindel Raze
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I was checking my dungeon score:
    Cathedral of Eternal Night +16 65m40sec -> 116.18 pts
    The Arcway +11 24m28s ->132.81 pts

    Completing CoEN +16 isn't certainly easier than 3 chesting Arc +11. Who designed this scoring system? Do they even play m+ dgns?

    Also, not showing a BRH +19 I completed in 1h22m49s, but showing BRH +13 cause the score is higher? Really?
  57. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +6 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Well it doesnt make sense to compare it with raids, because in raids you dont have the timer.
    In fact the old system had to be changed, that's the right way. But there should be another solution than the actual one.

    Blizzard stopped awarding 3 chests - why should wowprogress start awarding that by giving more points?
    Blizzard also stopped depleting keys. wowprogress started on that by penalizing keys that arent made in time.

    I think wowprogress is doing right in making differences here, because people should see that a key made in time isnt the same like a key that wasnt made in time.

    On the other hand there is an exponential rising difficulty on keystones and that is the reason why N keystone not in time shouldnt get lower points than N-1 keystone made in time.

    It should be like Donselm said before:

    "I would like to add a suggestion. Why not do it like the following.
    Beating dungeon in time = Full points (e.g. on a +15 = 150 points)
    Beating a dungeon not in time -1chest = 75% points of that level (e.g. 147.5 points)
    Beating a dungeon not in time -2chest = 50% points of that level (e.g. 145 points)
    Beating a dungeon not in time -3chest = 25% points of that level (e.g. 142.5 points)"

    In that way people can't get lower points than N-1 keystone in time, but they still get a motivation to get better or to even finish their keystones at all - NOT a penalty.
  58. Sindelpt
    Sindel Raze
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    A system like that would make a difference without adding a punishment to the souls who decide to endure finishing a hard dgn/key.
  59. Emrip
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Trying to invent negative chests to say "I failed less than you" is stupid. A not in time is a fail regardless of how hard you fail. All fails are equal and should be treated as such. If you want a scaling score system it should scale up with completes similar to what was suggested but the other way or just flat out state whether the key was completed in 1/2/3/not in time.
  60. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Well in fact you are right.

    How is this idea:
    What happens if you do 1 - 2 - 3 Chests?
    You will receive a 1 - 2 - 3 times higher keystone.

    What happens if you fail a keystone?
    You will receive a 1 time lower keystone.

    For wowprogress it could be similar to Blizzard's idea.

    15: 1 Chest -> 150 points
    15: 2 Chests -> 160 points
    15: 3 Chests -> 170 points
    15: not in time -> 140 points

    That's an idea about a new scoring. People will not only look at the whole m+ score at all. They will have to do deeper looks on what keys they made in time and what keys they did not.

    There can be a person only made 15 with 3 Chests with the same over all score like a person with only 17 with 1 Chest. Possibly people will not pick the 15 - 3 Chests guy, because he has no experience at all attending on 17 keystones. Or people wil lthink if he was able to 3 chest all those 15 keys, he is worth a try.

    Anyways people have to take deeper looks on the personal experince of another person. The over all scoring doesnt matter that much anymore, but it would be a fair, transparent system.

    And: on front page of every profile has to be shown the whole experience. People need to see on what someone failed and on what someone did a good job. Even if people got lower points for something, it has to be shown.
  61. Wyand12
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    What Vanity22 suggests would make sense imo.
  62. Kersti
    Kersti#2110
    Shanon
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    This is total bullshit.. How can you think THIS is a good idea?!?!?!?
  63. MoarDotss
    Cat#2583
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Pls return too old system. Finishing a high key should be rewarded not punished!
  64. MoarDotss
    Cat#2583
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    i got fucking 88.35 points for my 15 cath key...this is so stupid :/
  65. Gramnul
    Gallenrobe#2444
    Rating: -4 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    hey everyone,

    the old system wasn´t fair aswell. We did coen +23 with a little bit over 100 min and get less points then the group, that did a coen +24 in 650+ min.
    Its seems really hard to come up with a system, that is fair at all time.

    I think its a improvement overall and it just needs a little fix for the highest keys. An easy way imho would be, that a key gives 100% as long as no other group has done it in time, 90% as long as less then five or ten groups have done it time. But i´m not sure, if that is possible.

    Also, i would be great, if tyrannical and fortified were separated. Then there would be a point in doing coen with tyrannical after all.


    But thanks @ wowprogress and keep up the good work.
  66. Emrip
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I love the tyrannical/fortified idea

    Regarding the high key you got to remember you did it faster on a level lower but you gotta remember that you failed the timer just as they did. Yes completing a CoEN at any high level is a feat. I did a 16 this week and it took me 153 minutes. My 16 CoEN counts for 6 M+ points. I wouldn't say it was easy. But the scoring process on here won't count it for what it was. Now I'm completely okay with the score being shit. But the fact that it won't even display on page is aggravating and downright disrespectful. Its like me telling you yeah your 23 CoEN was good but the guys who 3 chested an 18 are going to get a higher score than you.
  67. Koor
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Looks like some overtime runs are completely missing. For example my score page shows EOA +17 on time, but my EOA +20, about 30 min over time, shows on the blizzard leaderboards, but doesn't show at all on wowprogress, even when selecting "all runs" instead of "time runs" and even when looking at dungeon specific runs.

    EOA +20 was much harder than EOA +17, even though it wasn't on time. It should definitely give higher score than +17.
  68. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    How is this idea:
    What happens if you do 1 - 2 - 3 Chests?
    You will receive a 1 - 2 - 3 times higher keystone.

    What happens if you fail a keystone?
    You will receive a 1 time lower keystone.

    For wowprogress it could be similar to Blizzard's idea.

    15: 1 Chest -> 150 points
    15: 2 Chests -> 160 points
    15: 3 Chests -> 170 points
    15: not in time -> 140 points

    That's an idea about a new scoring. People will not only look at the whole m+ score at all. They will have to do deeper looks on what keys they made in time and what keys they did not.

    There can be a person only made 15 with 3 Chests with the same over all score like a person with only 17 with 1 Chest. Possibly people will not pick the 15 - 3 Chests guy, because he has no experience at all attending on 17 keystones. Or people will think if he was able to 3 chest all those 15 keys, he is worth a try.

    Anyways people have to take deeper looks on the personal experience of another person. The over all scoring doesnt matter that much anymore, but it would be a fair, transparent system.

    And: on front page of every profile has to be shown the whole experience. People need to see on what someone failed and on what someone did a good job. Even if people got lower points for something, it has to be shown.
  69. Kernel
    3 years ago
    With your idea anyone who got lucky to find group with +19 key would get 180 points guaranteed (they just need to complete it, even with BL on every pull).
    The runs were designed to be timed. The time limit is essential part of it.
  70. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Except that if a group has any shitty player they will never finish the +19, at this lvl of M+ everyone of the 5 people have to be real good only to finish the dungeon, therefor, all of them deserve that 180 points...
  71. Kernel
    3 years ago
    There is a difference of completing +18 in time and participating in a hours-long wipefest in +19.
    These two cases are basically different games and in-time completion is skill-wise can be more difficult.

    M+ competition is about timing runs rather than hours-long marathons.


    Also read my comment below:
    "Many people just don't want (don't have possibility or they think it is boring) to spend 10 hours in the dungeon. Therefore the pool of people who can compete would be reduced.
    That's why respecting the timer is better way for scoring."
  72. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Totally agree with your first point, however in the current system my CoEN +2 is worth more points than my CoEN +14, skill-wise there is no comparison between the two ...

    As Vanity22 suggested :
    "One thought... If u get bonus points for 1 - 2 - 3 chests like before in 7.2 getting bonus loot for that... 15 2 Chests = 165 points right now in my case.

    Why is the deduction of points for keys they arent completed in time that high?
    Right now you are getting a one rank lower key for not making intime. shouldnt it be the same here?

    18 - 2 Chests = 190 points
    18 - 1 Chest = 180 points
    18 not in time = (one key lower) = 170 points?"

    About your second point, already replied to that :
    "Still, top raid progress guilds spend 12 hours a day 7/7 trying new bosses. I don't "have the possibility/think it's boring" to do the same, but I'm not gonna cry they cleaned the raid before i did. That's the way MMO work. So ofc the pool of people who can compete is reduced, but that's how MMO works ..."
  73. shenanigan
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Black Rook Hold M+18 58m 23s 155.16
    Court of Stars M+17 31m 26s 167.62
    Darkheart Thicket M+17 58m 0s 123.32
    all keys not in time... don't understand the logic at all... how cos17 gives more then brh18? why dht17 gives -40+ vs cos17?
  74. Kernel
    3 years ago
    Your BRH and DHT runs took way longer than the time limit allows. Points decreased linearly with the timer.
  75. shenanigan
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    so it's intended that dht17 58m gives same points as dht12+1 which is faceroll compared to 17?
  76. Kernel
    3 years ago
    If dht12 is faceroll for you, then surely you should go for higher level and do it in time for best score.
  77. shenanigan
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    and really i don't understand what to discuss here... for everyone ppl who do 24key in 650minutes is better then ppl who do 23key in time... because even if second group do 23 key in time they cant do 24 key at all... even in 650 minutes... first group is better and there is nothing to discuss here...
  78. Kernel
    3 years ago
    Many people just don't want (don't have possibility or they think it is boring) to spend 10 hours in the dungeon. Therefore the pool of people who can compete would be reduced.
    That's why respecting the timer is better way for scoring.

    Also with this new key randomness it's not easy to find key for dungeon you want to do. That second 24 key group would get another dungeon like Cathedral that would be much harder to complete.
  79. shenanigan
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    ok lets compete in mos10 runs - who will do it in 5mins or 4-59 instead of compete in hard content... really don't understand the point... next change will be raid rankings? "...Many people just don't want (don't have possibility or they think it is boring) to spend 10 hours in Kil'Jaeden Mythic trys..." so let's rank guilds on Kil'Jaeden normal?
  80. Kernel
    3 years ago
    If people complete mos10 in 5 minutes, they go to a higher level, complete it in 6-7 minutes and get higher score.
    But most of them don't sit there for hours waiting for BL cooldown.

    With raids, it's a little different, raids take longer time. But they don't take 1 year. And if they would, most of the people would simple ignore them. So there are reasonable timing conditions everywhere.
  81. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Still, top raid progress spend 12 hours a day 7/7 trying new bosses. I don't "have the possibility/think it's boring" to do the same, but I'm not gonna cry they cleaned the raid before i did. That's the way MMO work. So ofc the pool of people who can compete is reduced, but that's how MMO works ...
  82. MoarDotss
    Cat#2583
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I can understand your point. But it should be more rewarding to finish a high key. with this change many people just gonna leave the group after first wipes and ruin the mythic+ experience for those who want to finish they key ( for weekly chest,score or challenge ). i can agree that a intime key gives more points than a not intime key but dont make the punishment too hard. its ridiculous that a easy 13/14 key gives more points than a really challenging 18+ key.
  83. AltherniReti
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    In my own opinion for ppl who want to do higher key run wowprogress can implement new feature "Mythic+ Experiance" with old system 10+ = 100pts, 15+ = 150pts etc.

    For Mythic+ score amount of pts. can be calculated with new system, but there is few problems:
    - +10 with 3 boxes =/= +13
    - as long Blizzard's leaderboards (based on key level>time) is only one source of m+ data u can't import the most m+ score run if there isn't there, even if u done +12 DHT in 4 min. :) This problem appear on high pop servers and popular dungeons 3-4 days after weakly reset.
    - extra pts. should be higher on higher key
  84. Arlakon
    Badturkey#2529
    Rating: +4 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    That people can't see all of the experience of a player is just a joke.

    If I build a group it does matter to me to know all of it and not only see what he did in time because the in time runs gave more points. And since Blizzard's leaderboards are resetting every single week, I can't count on wowprogress anymore in that point.

    A group can make a CoS 19 intime and still can fail at Cathedral 16 just because that one is harder. But cathedral 11 is shown on their pages because it gave more points. I don't have the option to get a complete image of their skills at all.

    I don't care at all of the calculation of over all m+ score. But I can't rely on the informations given, because it doesn't show all.
  85. Arlakon
    Badturkey#2529
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    You show all informations for Raid Bosses on front page - normal, heroic, mythic. Why don't you show all at one sight for m+?
  86. MoarDotss
    Cat#2583
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Very good point! show atleast all finished runs.
  87. Healandkite
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I would like to begin by saying thank you greatly for all the work that you put into wowprogress. It is an incredibly useful tool for the community that we get to use for free. Nearly everyone appears to be in agreement that completing a key after time expired should not be worth as much as one in time/+2 /+3 chested. However, I think the key disagreement is whether a higher key should ever be worth less score than doing one lower than it. I think the core aspect to this disagreement is whether one views wowprogress as a tool to compare the skills of players with other players, or a tool to compare players to an objective standard. I hope to clarify what I mean by this through a hypothetical:
    Only one group in the entire world was able to complete a +25 key that week (Five people, out of hundreds of thousands/millions of players) What greater indication of skill can you ask for? Does it really matter that it took them 2 extra hours to complete the key? While completing a key in time is very important, it is even more important how fast the key was completed relative to other players attempting the same level key.
    I think that it has been overlooked that under the old system players were able to assess whether the run someone else completed was quality or not. If someone did as you argued, waiting to use BL on every pull, their region/world ranking would be terrible. So while yes, someone may be able to complete a >+20 key in the way you describe (taking 12 hours) the incredibly low rank would clearly show that it was not a good run, and should not be taken as any indication of skill/ability relative to other players. No group wants someone who has zero +15’s completed in time but a 2400 m+ score.
    The biggest problem with this update is that it encourages groups to just disband rather than work together and improve when facing an obstacle. I have failed countless keys, made countless mistakes – each taught a lesson, molding me into a better player. Had I not pushed my limits, going out of my comfort zone (and failing), I would not have developed these skills. This is not promoted through this update: if the going gets tough, try an easier one. If one week has especially hard affixes, this update greatly encourages (even more) for players to just wait it out for easier ones.
    I do not think that giving more points for +2/+3 chest has to be mutually exclusive with penalizing out of time completions. A compromise would be to have two boxes/tabs, like that for healer/dps/tank right now, one that shows mythic+ score for keys completed in time, and one that shows mythic+ score for all keys completed like the old system (as well as showing the rankings for both). Another fair option would be to penalize scores 0-10 based upon how many 1 chests over, with a maximum of 10 points deducted (if you took >70 minutes overtime to complete an EoA 15 it would be worth 140 points) Never should a 15 give less score than a 14, regardless of the time it took (again, we can look at the ranking of the run, and on top of that seeing someone completed a 20 but it only gave them 190, clearly the run was very rough and would be a redflag)
  88. Gramnul
    Gallenrobe#2444
    Rating: -2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Doing a run so over time (like 18x in time) its not that hard. You could run out of the dungeon and change talents and even specs for trash, you could cc every mob and kill one by one and wait before each boss for bl and 4-5 br (dk, wl and bm with a druid healer is a good comp). That has nothing to do with skill anymore. There has to be a time cap or a penalty. But due to the increase of difficulty on high keys, the cap should be around 2-3x in time.

    Maybe it would be a solution to show both, in time and complete (cap than maybe to 200-400% in time) and even give points for both. I would be ok with that, but that a 10 hour run counts more then a in time run one or two level below is so wrong.
  89. MoarDotss
    Cat#2583
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I dont have a problem that a 19intime key or 18 2 chest key gives the same point as a 20 10hr not intime key. thats fair. but the 20 key should always give more points than a 17 key intime. the difficulty between high and low keys is higher than the notintime score punishment right now.

    my solution is too balanced the not intime punishment like i said in my excample:

    n+2 key,timer missed by the same amount of time as 2-chests bonus = N key 2 chest = n+1 key intime > n-1 key intime
  90. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Ok, I think a lot of us have talked about our opinions. Can we get an answer ? Are you gonna listen to the community mostly agreeing that this system is broken or ignore us ?
    In that question i don't necessarily imply to get back to the old system, but just that this one needs improvement.
    Honestly IG, it feels like shit when someone (or myself) leave a dungeon because the key is depleted and therefor worth nothing.
  91. Irilla
    Midwen#1584
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    As with Vanity22's idea or Donselm's which are both good imo.
  92. Kernel
    3 years ago
    I don't have time to answer to everyone.
    If you try to scroll up, I've provided answers to most of the ideas.

    Still working on improving the scoring, but don't see yet any better solution at the moment.
  93. shenanigan
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    there is no sinle word from you how you come to desision where coen20 in 1-30 hour is like coen13+2 chests...
  94. shenanigan
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    there is no proble if coen18+2=coen19+1=coen20 not in time... problem is coen13+2=coen20 not in time...
  95. Kernel
    3 years ago
    If you want to post your idea/question/complaint here:
    Please scroll up and read my previous answers first.
  96. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +4 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    At least we have to see the whole experience of a player if wowprogress wants to stay as number 1 tool to help in building up groups or analize players to get a first review of them. Right now that is not given.

    Scoring are just numbers. Numbers can not tell the whole story of a person. People can ignore numbers at all and take a look at the whole experience. If you still have higher keys completed not in time in the database, then show them even if they got lower points to scoring.

    people can live with a scoring that doesnt fit to everyone, but if you devalue people by not showing their highest personal achievement (ofc its shown in blizzards leaderboards) is making them mad.
  97. kompass99
    chris94#2155
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    @Kernel: I dont know if you read it in the 1000 posts above but what i wanted to say (maybe you read it ;)):

    Everyone is unhappy with the actuall system cause low keys like 11 are more worth than 16/17/18+ if its maybe progress with 20-30 min over (i dont talk about hours of progress in a dungeon), but if you 30 min over time its fact the key brings like 80 points and that can be the right solution of making a new system, think about it.
  98. kompass99
    chris94#2155
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    that can'T be the right solution of making a new system, think about it.
  99. Kernel
    3 years ago
    Update:
    Changed key level-time balance towards key level. Now 3-chests completion time equals next key level just in-time.
  100. Panacoti
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    We complain a lot because your work is important to us. Thanks for trying to find the best way to score mm+. Thanks for reading us.
  101. Kernel
    3 years ago
    Thank you guys for your feedback!
  102. kompass99
    chris94#2155
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    great work, thanks :)
  103. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Don't think that that is a solution to all problems. Still need to see that keys that aren't shown by now, because they gave not enough points, but they are shown in blizzard's leaderboards.
  104. Vanity22
    Vanity22#2458
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Btw keep up the good work. I really appreciate it.
  105. Koor
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Looks much better now, thanks.
  106. intrilo
    Atzira For Science
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    All the current season runs shows as depleted runs btw
  107. intrilo
    Atzira For Science
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    previous*
  108. Crufire
    Crunimi#2315
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    3 years ago
    I hate this change, it's promoting lower level keys, rather than promoting to try and progress high ones, with recent m+ changes (removal of depleted keys which equals removal of progression) I find this change extremly unfair and not having any kind of sense. It should be never case that 2-3 levels lower instance is even remotly close in score with higher one...
  109. Izibb
    Izi#2751
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    My group 2-chested easily a +13, then we struggled a lot on EoA+15 and didn't made it in time. I got 83 points for that EoA. Should i just steamroll +13 instead of going for higher level keys ? Getting the same amount of points as if I 3-chested a +7 is a bit excessive imo. That's a weird system !
  110. Izibb
    Izi#2751
    Rating: [-][+]
    3 years ago
    Was a +15 Maw actually, sorry !
  111. Grotesck
    Manhattan#21456
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    Where is Mythic + recent runs in "My profile"? Cant find and Like others players.
  112. Vajana
    Crow#2880
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    SO all my charakters not update
    cause my rogue has +14 and +16 intime not shown
    my priest lacks alot of 11 10 and stuff how should i ever join m+ groups by checking wowprogress`?
  113. miwen
    JoD#11217
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    Hello, is it normal my +19 in time Cathedral was not update for me and was for some of the mates that did this run ? The run is available on --- but not here.. Weird
  114. miwen
    JoD#11217
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    Hello, is it normal my +19 in time Cathedral was not update for me and was for some of the mates that did this run ? The run is available on --- but not here.. Weird
  115. musefan
    MuseFan#2395
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    Hi. I was just wondering, I gave some runs that are completely missing. I healed a HoV 12 in time, sometime last week (can't remember how many chests) I've also done a brh 15 this evening as dps on the same toon. Missed this timer by a couple of minutes. Again no score at all. I've ofc logged out and refreshed, even in both specs. Is there anyway to get the score up on my page? Or anywhere else I can find it. Any help much appreciated, thank you.
  116. Iceruz
    Icerusz#2394
    Jæni Anatidaephobia
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    Hey, have done 3 times arcway instance. +14 +15 and today +17. Cant get any score to my scoreboard? why is that?

    Thank you if u can solve this.
  117. Iceruz
    Icerusz#2394
    Jæni Anatidaephobia
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    Hey, have done 3 times arcway instance. +14 +15 and today +17. Cant get any score to my scoreboard? why is that?

    Thank you if u can solve this.
  118. Seelie
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    I am also having an issue with a run not showing up. I completed my 1 and only Seat run for the 7.3.2 season so far. It was a 17 and we did not beat the timer, but it is not showing up on my runs at all still. It was days ago and all of my other runs have updated, but according to the system, I've still never run a Seat key.
  119. Seelie
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    I am also having an issue with a run not showing up. I completed my 1 and only Seat run for the 7.3.2 season so far. It was a 17 and we did not beat the timer, but it is not showing up on my runs at all still. It was days ago and all of my other runs have updated, but according to the system, I've still never run a Seat key.
  120. Holyroller
    Holyroller#1662
    Holyroller Intensely Casual
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    I ran an upper Kara 15 and a 14 Maw just this past weekend (January 7) and neither is showing in my mythic + scores / runs. Yet, the Seat I ran just two days ago does show. I know we blew the timer on the Kara, but the Maw was on time. both would add to my overall score since up until Sunday I hadn't done either of them yet this "season".
  121. Damates
    Rating: [-][+]
    2 years ago
    Hi. I'm missing an Upper Karazan 14, which I compleated this week in time for +3 (exact timmer 18:26). For some reason I can't find it in the database. Was it not recorded or is it some kind of bug?
    Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
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    Removing non-active WoW characters
    6 months ago
    Due to the updated Blizzard API Policy, we have to refresh all the characters no less frequently than every 30 days. At the moment WoWProgress updates members of active raiding guilds several times a month. Characters that are not members of such guilds most probably will be removed from our database if you don't update them manually.
    If a character was deleted (or moved) by the player, we also have to remove it from our database.
     
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