Raid size in guild profiles


Kernel 13 years ago


Update your guild profile with raid size info.
Guild profile administrators are able to select from following three options:
10-man
25-man
10-25-man

This info will be shown in the guild listings making your guild more visible.
RSS

Comments

  1. seno1h
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    so a 25 raid guild can easily cheat rankings with a 10 man alts? (assuming 10 man is easier, ofc)
    Reply
  2. Yavimaya
    Yavimaya#1637
    Rating: +3 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Sorry for saying that, but you just downgraded your site...

    Just some option for guilds to manually switch between 10-man and 25-man raids might be enough for recruiting, but isn't for interesting rankings. That´s what your page was about over the years. People are interested in rankings cause everyone wants to compete - not just some worldfirsts guild - there is a competition at every single server. That´s why ppl were showing up at your site. To compare their guild with others. That´s not possible anylonger if you won't change it to sth. more suitable for this situation.

    Your solution is pretty neat for recruiting purposes, but won't change a thing for all other purposes. I hope you won't stick to that.
    Reply
  3. Kernel
    13 years ago
    I understand that some 25-man guilds could be disappointed with the situation and would want to express it, but I don't see how the site is "downgraded".
    The subject is obviously an improvement.

    Regarding separated rankings, once we find a reliable solution to separate 10- and 25-man, we will release it, I don't want to receive emails such as "your site is wrong, fix our rating" just because the rating sometimes doesn't work correctly with 10- or 25-man.
    Reply
  4. Gaffer
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Can't a 10- versus 25-man kill be detected by scanning the guild news page and comparing the loots received versus boss loot tables? If you receive 5 loots from a specific boss, you likely killed it on 25-man (there's a way to cheat it, but it's pretty unlikely any of the guilds capable of doing it would).
    Reply
  5. seno1h
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    this is not reliable because the armory happens to be offline sometimes, possible disenchants and so on.
    Reply
  6. Gaffer
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    The armory currently shows all received items, regardless of whether is was disenchanted or not. The armory being offline is always going to be an issue for any method.
    Reply
  7. seno1h
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    the armoy being offline is no issue with achievement timestamps but the recent activity queue can be flooded with crap. dont know how long they are listed.
    Reply
  8. Xerofour
    Rating: +4 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Every single heroic mode boss gives an achievement for killing it.

    If a guild labels themself as a 25 man guild then over 20 guild members need to have the kill achievement for it to update on your site. So if they kill a boss on 10 man, only 10 people get the achievement and so no progress update.

    If a guild labels themself as a 10 man guild, then only 10 people in the guild need the achievement for it to update on your site.

    I really don't see the problem with this method, as every boss on heroic rewards an achievement it can't be difficult to track.

    If a guild labels themself as '10 or 25 man' then just specify on their page on which setting they killed it. Though this is a non-issue imo as no serious raiding guild is 10 or 25 man, they can only viably focus on one.
    Reply
  9. seno1h
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    this is still not reliable.

    if the guild kills the boss in 10 man and in 25 man afterwards, the guild will not have 20 players with the same achievement timestamp.

    you still cant distinguish between 10 and 25 man reliable. only firstkills in 10 OR 25.
    Reply
  10. Insolence
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Actually this could work. Achievements still have Dates.

    Yes, it will only work for first kills however, so you'd technically have to rank based on First Kill.

    Basically, say you have 20+ Achievements from Ensidia for Nefarion dated 14/12/10, you can assume that it was most probably a 25 Player Kill, so tag them under "Tier 11 (25)."

    The next day Paragon gets 8+ Achievements for Nefarion dated 15/12/10, you can therefore assume that kill was done in 10 Player Mode.

    Flaw: 2 Teams kill the Boss same day, 20 Achievements. That's where the current Guild Profile Raid Size Tagging thing comes in. If you're tagged as 25, it will only post under 25. If you're tagged as 10, it will only post under 10, regardless of how many Achievements dinged.

    Yes, it doesn't solve the flaw of 1 Guild 2 10 Teams killing the Boss same day, but its a start. I think people would prefer that to the 1 Page there's now.
    Reply
  11. Insolence
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Just make it so that Guilds need to Tag themselves as 10 or 25 to count in Rankings, and the only way to appear in both 10 and 25 is by tagging your Guild as 10-25 instead of just 10 or 25.

    If you force Guilds to choose a Ranking, then there's no problem with missing Guilds.

    Yes, it still won't be 100% accurate.

    I still don't understand how other Sites (Guildox) are getting Time Stamps on their Boss Kills. Are we missing the obvious here or something?
    Reply
  12. seno1h
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    we have only 1 kill-achievement per toon regardless of raid size. thats the whole problem.
    Reply
  13. Gaffer
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    I didn't realize this was also an issue for heroic kills. The old armory XML data is still available. Timestamps are printed for all achievement completions and since each heroic mode has an achievement, detection for 25-man heroic mode should be uninterrupted.
    Reply
  14. Yavimaya
    Yavimaya#1637
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Sure the subject is an improvement compared to the situation the week before, but compared to the situation we had during the last years it is obviously no improvement.

    Your site is "downgraded" cause now it misses reliable PvE rankings not just for 25-man guilds. I guess you miss the point, that not only world top guilds want to see seperated rankings. Read my post from above - there are many guilds who want to compete on their server within their skill level.

    There are many reliable solutions ppl. have stated in the comments of your last post. Furthermore there are many ppl. who will surely help you to modify or add things to this page.

    You are right, if sth. might be wrong with your page, or sth. isn't the right way in s.o. opinion this person needs to state constructive criticism. Constructive criticism is always good for both sides of a special opinion. I encourage everyone to state constructive criticism and not just post some rnd flame. In return i want to encourage you Kernel to read and try to understand those critics and think about a solution which is best for all.
    Reply
  15. Insolence
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    What is he supposed to do then? Do you see any site at all having separate 10 and 25 Rankings anymore?

    Btw Kernel, any chance of making separate 10 and 25 Rankings based on this? It won't be 100% accurate but I think we can trust the Top Guilds not to cheat. Besides, there's always Screenshots of Boss Kills.
    Reply
  16. Yavimaya
    Yavimaya#1637
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Yes there are other sites having separate rankings all of them were already stated in the comments below or in the comments at the other topic - i won't advertise again for any other site, because i think this site was the best site for progress tracking and i hope we can discuss this out, because i want to stay it the best site...
    Reply
  17. ique
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    "sth. more suitable" like what? this is what can be done atm.
    Reply
  18. Adi
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    interesting how fast the 25er guilds updatet their raid size. the 10 man raids ashamed?
    Reply
  19. seno1h
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    no update = 25 man. ashamed to be stupid?
    Reply
  20. Adi
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    no update = 25? makes no sense
    Reply
  21. ique
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    lol
    no update is not = 25 look at ensidia
    Reply
  22. Kourts
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Ensidia killed their only hard mode in 10 man so technically right now they are a 10 man guild progress wise.
    Reply
  23. Mari
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Well time stamps check idea was the best so far but guess its not easy or you dont want to implement it. Anyway will keep using the site for recruitment ofc etc but ok cant have reliable rankings.

    We have 25 man guilds that already did most of normal content on 10 man how will they get ranked? Or guilds that simply dont know/bother with the site how will they get ranked and snd so on. Way to many parameters that make it unreliable.
    Reply
  24. Kourts
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    An example of how flawed this is is noxa saying they are 10/25 man when they have killed every single boss in order to get their high ranking in the substantially easier 10 man version.
    Reply
  25. ique
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    lies... lies everywhere
    Reply
  26. lolyeahright
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    the way that this is right now is just not reliable at all, look at ensidia's and noxa's examples, noxa didn't kill a single boss in 25man, still they want some easy fame by adding "10/25man" to their raid size info, same goes for ensidia, killing the only hardmode boss so far on 10man and being tagged as a 25man. Tbh if you ask me, not having this raid size info would help and avoid people being lied to, until today with this merged 10 and 25 thing, if you needed to check if the guild was killing bosses on 10 or 25man you would check their website, like this people will just lie for easy fame like they're doing already.
    Reply
  27. Harpye
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    thats wrong, noxa killed half of the bosses in 25man.
    noxa only progresses with 10man and to think 25man is harder at all, you re wrong too. i saw both versions of nearly every fight, you too? indeed positioning is a problem for council and alakir.
    but in 25man you have so much more options like an extra tank... priest ae bubble... more kickers... kiters...
    some were harder in 25 man, others in 10man, thats a fact.
    easy fame? go try! noxas goal wasnt fame, dont blame noxa for just playing the game with 10 pretty good players
    Reply
  28. Harpye
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    oh i forgot, easy fame is playing beta!
    Reply
  29. Harpye
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    with 25 beta keys!
    Reply
  30. Hostibus
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    not fame? and yet You come here trying to tell us You`ve killed like half in 25man when Your WoL clearly states otherwise, theres not a single record of 25 in the 1st week of Cata and 8x 10man, so tops You can get 4x 25 which You probably don`t have as well.

    Nice try though, now You look even more pathetic ! Go go make Your logs private now so people won't laugh.
    Reply
  31. Hostibus
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    oh also as this is a progress ranking, nobody cares what You killed after, progress kills are the only ones that people are interested in
    Reply
  32. Harpye
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    i never said 1st week, logs arent private
    Reply
  33. Harpye
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    again we dont raid for fame or rankings in the first place:
    Guild Profile: semi-hardcore
    pretty good defined, dont you think?

    logs are up since last night, people arent even able to read before they talk bullshit

    sorry for destroying your little dreamworld, but i guess there is always someone out there like you
    Reply
  34. Hostibus
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    you honestly dont get it right ? when lolyeahright said You didn't kill a single thing in 25 and rank urself as 25 it was a true statement as at this point You didn't have a single kill in 25man and Your progress is/will always be based on 10man kills. Yet You came here saying its not true. And even keep on arguing its not cause NOW You`ve killed some(now as of AFTER lolyeahrights post)
    Reply
  35. Harpye
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    just pointless...
    Reply
  36. lolyeahright
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    and its needless to say that the 10man fights are clearly easier than 25, blizzard can try to bs us in the way that they want to, but every person with half of a brain knows that. it's I M P O S S I B L E to balance a 10 and a 25 man encounter in this game with the same difficulty level.
    Reply
  37. Fallin
    Fallin#2401
    Fivreld Once Again
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Sup! Gonna actually try out a little bit of PvE before you claim that everything is easier on 10man little man? Did you ever try Cho'gall 10man? :p
    Reply
  38. lolyeahright
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    are you really saying that? oh well, nothing less to be expected from a low level player like you i guess. go back to your grim batol failures on EX already and don't come here saying bs like that, because people that don't know how this game works might actually believe you.
    Reply
  39. Fallin
    Fallin#2401
    Fivreld Once Again
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    and who are you to judge me as a player? I have never ever played with you. (Let alone that you hide behind a fake nick)
    Reply
  40. Tyran
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Just make a 25 man ranking that only allows guilds to be ranked if they made all their first kills in the 25 man setting.
    If they killed ANY boss on 10 man first, they're not a 25 man guild. Simple.
    Reply
  41. Xsâraa
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    good suggestion
    Reply
  42. Halbyy
    Halby#2239
    Halby CasualBusters
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    This exactly, ranked below guilds that had to cheese back to 10 man on fights like Al'Akir.
    Reply
  43. ique
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    ya, i dont care about 10man, just do a 25 man list and we are happy :D
    Reply
  44. Adi
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    "Sup! Gonna actually try out a little bit of PvE before you claim that everything is easier on 10man little man? Did you ever try Cho'gall 10man? :p"

    even if 10 and 25 are equal in difficulty.
    its much easier to see the fails in 10er, who failed, who didnt run out of the raid...
    its much easier to get 10man in the raid at 10am.
    the positioning is normally much easier in 10er. see ascendant council p3.
    the communication is much easier in 10er.

    and maybe there are some more important points, but all that things are enough for me to say 10man? no fking way!
    Reply
  45. Adi
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    oh yeah i forgott its easier to get 10 well equipped people.
    and right now its easier to get 10 people raid buffed. its a hell on our server to find a agi flask or the materials for it in the AH. and every herb point is overfarmed.
    Reply
  46. lolyeahright
    Rating: -1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    that's pretty much it, every single fight that requires movement or has some sort of chain-lightning or cone abilities will ALWAYS BE EASIER TO WORK OUT WITH ON 10man, only a brainless person would say that it has the same difficult level in both 10 and 25man.
    Reply
  47. Bulvaye
    Rating: +2 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Currently this change doesnt really mean or solve anything

    Idea - Enable filter on the recruite part to filter by raid size will help big time but im afraid until you solve the ranking issue and split the 2 different raid sizes your ranking is wrong and currently cause more problems and miss understandings then anything else

    This site was the best for long time and i think all of the above wants it to be the best
    Reply
  48. Cecilia
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    I sincerely appreciate your hard work on WOW raid progress by far. However, the current situation is that our guild has downed all bosses in T11 in normal difficulty, and we also tag our raid scale as 25 men. Yet we're not listed on 25 man T11.
    Reply
  49. Starrets
    Zosima Eternal Kingdom
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Please remove the 10/25 option in guild profiles. For purpose of competition, the guilds should choose either 10 or 25 and then only rank in that category. I understand the idea of a 25 man guild breaking into two 10 man raids for X reason, but that's not really competition at that point.
    Reply
  50. Huntmaster
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Hello, my guilds 3 profile administrators stopped playing at the end of wotlk or are not in the guild any more and I have no means to update our guild status, recruitment etc. What should I do?
    Reply
  51. Luun
    Luun#2576
    Luunbear Innominatum
    Rating: +1 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Any way of changing the shown kills from 25 to 10? We recently changed from 25man to 10man and therefor we want our 10man kills to show and not our 25man kills.

    I did change the guild to a 10man guild about a week ago, didn't help much.

    Numbers Mate on Sunstrider EU
    Reply
  52. Lilquety
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    So how many guild members in the guild count for a boss kill to be ranked? Some guilds are getting credit for a boss kill with only 6 guild members on a 10 man run. If you are going to give them credit for a raid boss kill, give extra points to guilds for have more guild members in the run, so that a guild with only 6 members on a boss kill is not ranked higher than a guild with 9 members... I think a guild deserves the extra credit for not pugging don't you?
    Reply
  53. giry
    Tilicaru Ancient Storm
    Rating: 0 [-][+]
    13 years ago
    Heya , we had some problems before with 10man 25 man as we started as 10 man then we switched to 25 and now not all our kills in 25 are show but after we started hc`s they recording well so hc is all that matter anyway , now i come with a question if i can get an answer would be very welcome :
    As i sayed we raid 25 man , we marked ourself 25 man guild on the site but now we would like to do some 10mans some hard bosses like cho`gall , nef , al`akir and i want to know if the kill will be register in the t11 tab (there is t11.25 t11.10 , t11 , so the t11 is general i guess ). thx
    Reply
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